“I have a question for those of you who are stone butch identified.
I have personally found that a lot of stone butch I’ve dated are in fact not stone at all by the definition I understand. Why is it that our butch brethren feel the need to add ‘stone’ to their label if they don’t truly feel that???
Honest question and innocently asked out of curiosity and would love to hear your feedback???”
In addressing this question / topic:
*People have their own perceptions of what Stone Butch means. These are mine and how I see it.
*Labels I use: Stone Butch, Hard Butch, Butchboi, TransButch, and Butch.
*Stone Butch lesbian= sexuality & identity & sexual preference
Stone refers to my sexual appetite and preferences as a top with the more standardly recognized ‘meaning’ of stone which is generally that I prefer to be the giver and not the receiver in the sexual and intimate interaction.
Butch is my identity. Yes, I use labels folks. I find them necessary for me to identify myself and when describing my perception of individuals in conversation. I, like Bear Bergman, see Butch as a noun, it’s who I am. Butch to me is my authentic identity. I am female bodied, but don’t identify as fully female, nor am I male, I am just Butch. Pronouns don’t really make a difference to me, except I don’t like the “m’am” or “lady” words much at all. I dislike them a lot. I am often mistaken for male, and thus I do get “sir” quite often, which I don’t mind and which actually makes me secretly smile at the fact that my masculinity is that strong.
There have been a lot of Butch bashing blogs lately across the web. Surprisingly from some sources that I was shocked at myself. But then other sources such as the TERFs out there, don’t surprise me one bit. TERFs seem to really frown upon female masculinity and are especially critical and phobic concerning the Butch-femme dynamic.
I had a long discussion tonight with my best friend here tonight concerning our views and perspectives of Butch – femme and the bashing and hatred that gets put out there from inside of our own LGBT community. I hate to even believe that these radical lesbian feminists are even part of my community, but by default they actually are and they’re not going away anytime soon.
Now I claim to know nothing about feminism beyond what the average person knows. I did not ever take any classes in gender studies, sexuality or feminist theory. So, all of my words here are purely my own thoughts, opinions and perspectives. Please agree to disagree respectfully.
I am a firmly planted member of the Butch-femme community. I love the dynamic; I thrive on the energy of the interaction and the intimacy. Being Stone Butch I absolutely love femmes. And Stone femmes are particularly attractive sexual beings to me. I worship femme energy, fierceness and the spark. I adore that femmes understand my Stone Butch identity better than any other identity in the spectrum. I’ve never been with another Butch, nor do I wish to be as to me it would be like screwing my brother and there would be a fight over who bottoms for sure! J My interest in Butches is for friendship, brotherhood and boi talk only. My sexual appetite is for femme lesbians only.
In my discussion tonight we were saying that the difference to us – that best describes my way of seeing the difference between a Butch and a Transman is that Butches grow up wishing to be bois and Transmen are men. It’s maybe difficult to explain this in writing to any great extent, but as a Butch I can say for myself that I have never wished to be a man, wanted to be a man or male. I am fine with being female bodied – although I did just modify my body with top surgery , and now that that is done I have no more body dysphoria. Maybe it’s because I’ve made it thru menopause, no more monthly reminders of my female parts, and now my chest looks closer to like what I wanted my whole life. I still identify as a Stone Butch lesbian, not as transgendered at all. And I have thought about it long and hard, Butch is just my true identity. Stone is my sexuality. Lesbian is my sexual preference. Perhaps some can relate to me here, and some can’t. This is just my take on my experience.
Some believe that B-f relationships are mimicking of heteronormative ideals. That to me is just bullshit. I hear that so much it makes me sick. My relationships have been far from heteronormative! I am a lesbian, I love women. I am a woman who loves women. I am a Butch who loves a femme. I’ve heard it said that B-f relationships are “unhealthy” for women – let me assure you my relationship dynamics are as healthy as can be. Lesbian relations are NOT unhealthy, even between women who have seemingly opposite personality traits that are erroneously coded as “masculine” and “feminine” in a sex hierarchy.
Just because I am Butch and my lover is femme doesn’t mean that our relationship is unhealthy by any means! Of course, every segment of society can have unhealthy relationships, so I am sure there are unhealthy B-f relationships too, but the fact that they are B-f is no reason that they are unhealthy, which I have heard implied and said straight out.
Being Butch I am very visible in the world as a homosexual female. A sort of “walking billboard for lesbianism and female masculinity” as I have heard it said. I cannot hide who I am. It’s fairly obvious that I am lesbian to anyone who meets or sees me. I wear my sexuality on my sleeve. And being seen with me is to be seen. Femmes often suffer the invisibility factor; they are not seen as lesbians and are often mistaken for straight women – even suffering the comments like “you are too pretty to be a lesbian” which is a great insult to most. Like what, all lesbians are ugly? I think not. What they are saying is that to be seen as a lesbian you should be more masculine and dyke-like. I feel for my femme friends, this isn’t an easy walk for them either. Inside the B-f relationship dynamic we often protect each other and sympathize the other’s similar – but very different at the same time – plights.
Stone doesn’t mean that I am hard and unemotional. Stone is a matter of who is giving and who is receiving in sexual situations with me. Stone to me is the easiest word to convey that part of myself without getting too in-depth. It means that my pleasure comes from giving pleasure to my femme partner; from her enjoying my masculinity, but knowing she’s with another woman – not a man. I love to kiss and be physical, I just have my off-limits area. In my case it’s for more than just the fact that I am Stone by preference, it also is affected by my hiv status – another story altogether.
I also take much pride in being a representative of the Butch identity; it has such rich history and depth. I’m proud to associate myself with the strength and fortitude of those who have gone before me as Butch throughout their lives.
Regarding the “hard and unemotional” perception of Butches – which I have kiddingly called Butch Emotional Deficit Disorder (BEDD) – that is not who I am at all in reality. Sure, I can be perceived as a hard ass; as a ruffian and bad boi. That is purely an exterior perception based upon the way I present – a harder masculine and tough presentation. It’s just who I have always been, I don’t know how to “tone it down” and I become frustrated sometimes because people say that I scare them. I am not scary. I am not violent or mean. I’m actually pretty much a diamond in the rough. In actuality I have a very caring and compassionate emotional side. I may not always be forthcoming with it, but it is there for those I choose to give a peek to in my life. With strangers I am definitely more walled up and less accessible. For those I love, they know that I am soft hearted. Being Stone doesn’t mean my heart is a rock. I fight this quite often in my life. Like I said, it’s frustrating and pisses me off sometimes, but it’s not something I have ever found a way to change without my trying to present as someone that I am not; and in ways I would not be comfortable.
I am not playing a “role” as some perceive. I AM Butch, and I do not attempt to play any role but try to always be my authentic self – in life and in love. I am a more dominant personality and I see that as part of my Butch identity and not a separated thing. In a D/s setting I am definitely Dominant. And I enjoy a sub very much. Again, not roles, but actual identities. Role playing to me is when we pretend to be something that we in actuality are not – don’t get me wrong, I think role playing can be fun in the right setting – but being Stone Butch is not a role that I play. It’s my life; it is who I am.
Butch-femme is not a hierarchy in relations – Butch over femme, and it is NOT a power imbalance as some seem to portray it and think that it is, it’s actually a mutual balance of give and take. My ying to her yang.
So those are my thoughts on this particular subject for tonight, as discombobulated as they may seem. I am a little ‘off’ my mark in writing lately, as my mind is often distracted by thoughts of a beautiful woman who is stealing my heart. I welcome your further questions, comments and feedback.
“Feminist “theory” was built on the backs of lesbian lives, especially lesbians targeted and ostracized for being walking billboards for the existence of female homosexuality.”
17 thoughts on “Stone Butch Views”
Thank you for your interesting article. This is a subject I have no personal experience with nor any understanding, and I have learned from reading your words. I very much appreciate your candor. What is a TERF?
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists
Thanks for sharing. It’s good to learn more about other and their desires and dynamics.
I identify as stone, as in not wanting my girl parts fiddled with. But I am a big hugger and kisser and very cuddly. I think a lot of people take stone to mean cold and not affectionate – which is their misunderstanding. If you want to see what a butch is really like watch them with their dog.
The butch as male role playing is again, a heteronormative view that every relationship (sexual) has to mimic the “normal” het relationship. It is a lack of imagination. I don’t know how straight women stand it.
Donna and I have “roles” but they are a division of labor. I open doors and lift heavy objects, but I also do all the shopping and cooking and puppy care. Donna straightens up and makes things look “pretty” but she also rewires lamps and refinishes furniture and parallel parks better than I do.
Thanks for this reply Jamie! You hit it spot on! I like you and Donna’s example of the division of labor. I just enjoy the B-f dynamic so much in all aspects of my life. Rock on!
Reblogged this on LifestyleGambler.
I absolutely and totally agree with what your all saying. I dont identify myself as male or female I am a stone-butch. I to would like top surgery but thats just simply because they get in the way and I’ve never liked them but by no means do I want to be male.
As the aforementioned best friend in the article — who admires those who identify as stone butches — I find myself agreeing with comments made by Jamie Rae.
[As an aside, I personally identify as ‘soft’ butch but asexual, which means I experience no sexual attraction to anyone; my attractions are either aesthetic (pleasing to look at) or personality, only. So, there is no sexual dynamic in my relationships.]
I find the butch personality / appearance to be aesthetically pleasing, but I would rather identify roles as a division of labor. I have never been considered feminine, yet bore and raised three (now grown children). I wasn’t the perfect homemaker, but I taught them to be self-sufficient and successful.
Now that I’m in my 50’s, I can handle most of what needs to be done on my own, but also don’t mind someone else doing things when I honestly need assistance. Cars, for instance — I know nothing about cars. But I can program electronics and work on computers, do your taxes, create and maintain databases, and do a lot of things others can’t.
I’m extremely outgoing, get along with almost anyone, and I’m one of the most compassionate people you’ll ever meet.
I don’t think the B/F dynamic is just for “relationships,” I believe it’s a mindset. For me, personally, I get annoyed if someone were to refer to me as femme. And in my head, it’s not a sexual connotation.
Yes, Suretta, Butch-Femme is my LIFESTYLE as much as it’s part of my relationships…I love the lifestyle itself. Thanks for commenting my friend! Love ya!
I finally know after 51 yrs. how to describe myself…NØ, who I am! Thank you for the most wonderful read. I will definitely keep this article 🙂
Pingback: Butch Review: MainelyButch Top Posts | MainelyButch: Butch Lesbian Perspectives
thank you for clarification… I am attracted to butch women but do not see myself as what you describe as a femme… more of a tomboy with feminine attributes… (or androgynous??) and with energies that are both yin and yang… however in the bedroom I prefer ‘bottom’ in mindset.. Do you know if butch women in general are predisposed to feminine “looking” women?
From my experience and talks with my Butch friends I would say that most, but not all, Butch women are predisposed to attractions to femme looking women. This isn’t to discount those who are attracted to other “types”, by any means. I know of Butch-Butch relationships, and femme-femme pairings, but Butch-Femme is the more common in my world. Thanks for responding! 🙂 ~MB
I just love reading your expressions of self and identity. I’m a stone fem and it is just so hard – people’s reactions are to assume that stone fems are selfish lovers. they have difficult even conceptualising what it must be like. I’m actually curating a zine on being stone and wondered if you might consider submitting? you can find out more info over at: butchfemmezines.tumblr.com
LikeLiked by 1 person
Hello! first, let me apologize for taking so long to reply to you here…I am catching up on my blog today and just saw your comment. Thanks for the compliment! And I hear you on the “people’s reactions” I am ever explaining what it means to be Butch – and it does NOT mean I wish to be a man! I would love to check out your zine. Am going to the link right now. Thanks again! ~MB
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you for replying! I hope you consider submitting something! An edited blog entry would work as well if you don’t feel like doing something new. Anyway thank you for your consideration!
Hi MB, I just came across this old post because WordPress “suggested” it to me after I read today’s entry. I’ve come across radical feminists who don’t understand what butch/femme is and this might be the people you’re referring to (although I don’t know for sure as you didn’t name them). But there are also some of us who do understand it.
There are radical feminists who say that butch/femme is a role play based on heterosexual roles because there have been some writers who have described it that way. I think those writers have gotten it wrong, and have therefore misled the feminists who are making critiques. There’s all sorts of weird stuff written about lesbians that doesn’t necessarily reflect what regular lesbians are like.
My partner and I are a feminist butch/femme couple and I know a few others as well. As they say, it takes all kinds!
Thanks for writing, I always enjoy your perspective.